I’m still logging this episode in, but I wanted to say that I am NOT including Stevie Nicks in with Fleetwood Mac. She’s her own woman, dammit!

By James! on 09.17.09 4:54 am

I thought this was a very well-coiffed episode.

By James! on 09.17.09 4:57 am

ooh it’s been ages since I’ve listened to that Who song, thanks, Adam! This was a difficult week, I think. And once again, Chris came up with a song I would have picked if I had remembered it. Chrissie just never gets old Bob, that Hum song is gorgeous, thanks! Greer, I’ve never fallen out of love with Stevie either, xoxo

By Tart on 09.17.09 5:51 am

Looking forward to hearing this one. I was stuck deciding between Pavement’s ‘Cut Your Hair’ and Beefheart’s ‘Hair Pie’ (celebrating a different type of hair, nudge nudge!).

By christophosphorous on 09.17.09 12:04 pm

Stevie is certainly her own person, and should be counted as such. #proudlywavingmySteviebutton

By nat on 09.17.09 1:58 pm

Ms. Nicks is one of those artists that often elicits a strong response from people. It’s always interesting to see what sort…

Greer! LOVED your Stevie intro, and was especially pleased to hear you include the bit about having been able to take the lyrics and ‘message’ of her music and assign to them whatever meaning was most useful to you at the time, way back when. Brava!

Your words moved me, and also tied in to ongoing thoughts I’ve had about my life-long passion for music, and the need to share that enthusiasm with others.

During many years that I worked in record stores and in community radio, I encountered many people (both professionals and ‘civilians’) with strong opinions about all different types of music. Spirited discussions could be great, but often I was perplexed by those who seemed to have declared themselves as arbiters of taste.

A person’s love for a particular artist and their music can involve so many little factors and be so subjective - - I could never understand anyone making an attempt to ‘talk them out of it’. It just seems such an egregious waste of time.

A couple of favorite quotes about music that I’ve remembered over the years;

“There’s two kinds of music: good and bad. I like both.” - Duke Ellington

“The only bad music is boring music” - Barrett ‘Dr. Demento’ Hansen

- - and my new favorite, I just found this about a week ago, and it seems particularly incisive when trying to discuss such intangibles - -

“Talking about music is like dancing about architecture.” - Martin Mull

Cheers, all!

By The In Crowd on 09.17.09 9:34 pm

Well said, TIC!

By James! on 09.18.09 3:10 pm

I tend to disagree with that Martin Mull quote, on the grounds that music and architecture have a lot in common. There are vast reams of theory and basic structural outlines and building blocks to use, but the works that stand out are those that build upon or deviate from that which has come before. That, and architecture is as much about taste as music. Talking about both can be interesting and rewarding, but both come down to personal response in the end. Ergo, talking about music is like talking about architecture. Sadly, this doesn’t sound so profound.

By Eiron Page on 09.18.09 5:07 pm

For an example, I am drawn to thinking of that song by The Feeling, Love It When You Call or whatever. As a pop song, it is structurally perfect: from memory I figure it has an ABAB(A)BB’ phrasing, the B’ being that one whole tone higher than the previous chorus intended to give an emotional lift at the end, and the whole things fades out on the hook; the aesthetic (lyrical) elements are classic design elements too, being little more than a string of binary oppositions bringing about conflict in each noted situation. It is hence a perfect piece of design engineering, but all I can see is the standard blueprint from which it, and the many others like it, were built. There’s no single element that makes me want to stop and take it in. Sure, it’s a perfectly pleasant building, solid and homely, but it’s not, to me, in any way special. Yet it hung about the pop charts for weeks and weeks. Shows what I know about architecture.

By Eiron Page on 09.18.09 5:17 pm

Yeah, but Eiron, the key to that Mull quote is the verb dancing. It’s hard to translate all of what goes on in a song into the comparatively limited medium of language in the same way that it’s tough to turn the structure and detailed calculation on a grand scale that is architecture into the comparatively limited medium that is the movement of the human body. OR you can’t be nearly as exact in dancing as you have to be in architecture

phew!

so, yes. music and architecture aren’t completely dissimilar. and so, the conclusion of your penultimate comment is also right. talking about both of them is similar.

all that being said, i would say that there are dance companies that are, at this moment, choreographing routines and programs to fly in the face of that Mull quote.

The Believer (a McSweeney’s publication) did an entire article about that quote a couple of months ago, as a matter of fact.

http://www.believermag.com/issues/200907/?read=article_phillips

By James! on 09.18.09 5:40 pm

I think the problem with the quote is dancing tends to rely on a relationship between sound and response. You can’t hear (most) architecture, so you can’t dance to it. It’s too easy. It’s like dancing about literature, dancing about art, dancing about tapestry, dancing about cuisine, dancing about film, &c.. Particularly with the last of these you can’t argue that it doesn’t create an emotional response for a variety of reasons (yes, sometimes including the use of music, but not always), and the reasons for different responses from different people is almost always complicated. Once any work, in any medium, is forged it is out of the hands of its creator and relies on the interpretation of its audience for emotional effect (and affect). So says Roland Barthes, and I am mostly inclined to agree with this theory. You can, and should, talk about what music means to you, but like with any creative form how you interpret it is down to you. And if you can’t dance to it, does than mean it isn’t music? Because I know plenty of pieces of incredibly powerful music you could never successfully and seriously dance to.

By Eiron Page on 09.18.09 8:32 pm

Excellent points. Good discussion

By James! on 09.18.09 8:40 pm

So, how do you feel about “A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle”?

;)

By nat on 09.18.09 10:29 pm

Well, they’ve developed science to the point whereby women can now reproduce without the aid of men, so the phrase now can be read, “A woman without something that is, besides perhaps being fun to ride, not strictly necessary to its survival, is like a fish without something that is, besides perhaps being fun to ride, not strictly necessary to its survival.”

By Eiron Page on 09.18.09 11:58 pm

(Nature requires diversity for survival, mind. So women probably won’t survive more than a couple of generations if they all do it, resulting in the extinction of the second X chromosome and the benefits of adaptation. But strictly speaking, the above is true.)

By Eiron Page on 09.19.09 1:26 am

James!

Thanks much for the Believer link (and its supporting links). I had no idea. Very cool!

You rock!

By The In Crowd on 09.19.09 5:28 pm

Meh. Commenting when tired again. I meant the extinction of the Y chromosome, of course. For all its foibles, it’s still useful.

By Eiron Page on 09.20.09 12:15 am

Hmmmm .. Wednesday again for this week’s cast. This is getting to be a habit!

By Tim on 09.22.09 6:01 pm

Maybe Wednesday is the new Tuesday.
Or the new Black.

(Still having trouble convincing some people that 45 is the new 30)

By The In Crowd on 09.22.09 9:03 pm

Maybe Wednesday is the new 30.

“You don’t look a day over Wednesday!”

By James! on 09.22.09 10:42 pm

Death is the new 90.

By FiL on 09.22.09 11:37 pm

Well, hey, considering that we all start out female physiologically by default, I’m not too concerned with your diversity rule :-p

By Tart on 09.23.09 4:05 am

Everyone else will have moved on but I just got to listen to this one and I really enjoyed it.

I was secretly hoping Nat might understand the Stevie thing but Tart too! And thank you for the kind words, The In Crowd. Love the Duke Ellington quote .

And now onto Random, can’t wait.

By Greer on 09.25.09 2:11 am

I always thought Elvis Costello was the source of that ‘talking about music’ quote. Turns out there is a ton of internet discussion on who said it first.

I’m all over that Bad Hair Days tune. And lol to Vini Reilly. He’s a bit of a freak, but has put out some gorgeous songs…this one not included!

By Tricia on 10.03.09 11:46 pm